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| Blogs > gottaring > Out of the Mouth of a Babe... |
Playing on the 'Gray Ground'
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Playing on the 'Gray Ground' I want to preface this post by admitting that this topic has been driving the hamster in my head crazy for a while now. [blog GeminiGirl1182] wrote a post that addresses it far better than I think I could have, and she was kind enough to allow me to use her words as a springboard for discussion. May I present [blog GeminiGirl1182], [post 2887852]. In one of the chat rooms I frequent a woman posted an interesting thread, part of which centered around whether or not people consider cybersex as cheating. You many not be surprised to hear that the women who have responded so far believe that cybersex equals cheating. The only man to reply so far (I think the other men are afraid to say anything...lol) said that while it's dishonest to have cybersex without your partner knowing about it, it's definitely not cheating. I happen to agree with that guy's statement. It IS dishonest if you're doing it in secret, and it could provoke trust issues within your relationship if your partner finds out, but I don't qualify it as actual adultery. Some women did not agree with my perspective, which prompted me to do a bit of research on the subject. Here's what I learned: It turns out there is legal precedent in the States for "Internet adultery" to be grounds for divorce. It becomes adultery when one partner engages in it without the knowledge or consent of the other partner,and without regard for their partner's feelings. A publication with close ties to the Vatican states that virtual adultery is just as sinful as the real thing. And some sex therapists agree that the lying and secrecy associated with cybersex and most cyberaffairs will destroy a couple’s trust and commitment. What I discovered through my research is that the terms "cyber-affair", "Internet adultery" and "virtual relationship" came up often, yet "masturbation" was hardly mentioned at all. So there, as the saying goes, is the rub. Adultery comes down to the difference between masturbating with the help of online live porn for simple sexual release versus building a virtual romantic relationship with a person. One satisfies a physiological need while the other satisfies an emotional need. The REAL question should be, "Does masturbating anonymously to live sex cams and/or porn constitute adultery?" From that perspective, I think it's easier to say no, it doesn't. After all, what's the difference between masturbating to a live cam vs. masturbating to thoughts of a hot stranger in your imagination? I happen to have very liberal views about sex and monogamy. I think most men would agree with me that online masturbation should never be confused with emotional attachment. I need sexual release more often than I can be satisfied by my partner so I sometimes watch live cams for inspiration while I masturbate. It has never once occurred to me to develop a real relationship with anyone online. Why would it? For all I know, I could be watching some real-life psycho freak who just happens to have a nice cock on cam! So to anyone reading this whose<b> feathers </font></b>may be severely ruffled by my words, let me be clear that for me, cybersex is ONLY about satisfying a physiological need. Emotional and romantic needs are best met by your real-life partner. As several of my Readers are married, I'm interested in knowing how you feel about this. I admit, I've had cybersex and LOTS of it. Did I consider it cheating? Not really, but my situation is less 'black and white' and a bit more 'gray'. Hubby knew about him but wished NOT to know the dirty details. I didn't hide anything and happily answered any questions honestly. I had very strong feelings for my partner and an emotional connection that might have bordered on adulterous in anyone else's marital situation, but my boundaries were well defined and strictly adhered to. This is why I didn't consider our 'virtual playtime' to be anything more than just that. Am I deluding myself, or is it still considered cheating if we aren't meeting? Postscript: After reading some of the comments, I realize I should have reworded my question to apply to your OWN personal situations and feelings. I know I wasn't cheating by the definition Hubby and I agreed upon- my conscience is clear. But what about you guys? Is allowing others to watch you on cam considered cheating? Or is it just 'acting for the camera'? What if you watch other people? Or is that akin to watching porn? Is it different if you KNOW whom you're watching? How about cybersex, phone sex, etc.? Or is the concept so fundamentally basic that the minutae are irrelevant: If you are lying, then you are cheating. Thoughts? When it comes to sex, I need a STRONG connection. Otherwise, the page just keeps buffering and takes FOREVER to load... |
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GOOD
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4/27/2012 4:11 pm |
cool
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YOU ARE ONE LOVELY LADY XXX
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There are some spouses that don't even want their spouse talking to the opposite sex. It doesn't make it infidelity if it happens. Not everything can come down to how it makes a spouse feel. Sometimes a person is just plain wrong to have the feelings they have. As far as virtual acts being considered infidelity.... I recently heard of a criminal case in which a young girl was attacked and killed by a man. Because he suffered from premature ejaculation (and/or another sexual dysfunction) there was no seman in the girl. He was not being charged with . Seems to me there is a lot of inconsistency in our society. I've solved the issue in my house. My husband and I have discussed and settle on the following terms. He doesn't want to know. He has blanketly said that if I ever needed anyone else, he did not want to ever know about it. So, I am VERY discreet. "Don't count the days, make the days count"
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Years ago when the first reports of 'cyber cheating' came out my ex and I discussed it. MY feeling was and still is that you are considered to be cheating if you have an intimate emotional attachment with another person. Notice I did not say sex. You can have sex with someone and not be cheating and you can have an online relationship (no 'cybering' involved) with a person and be cheating. Granted these are things that roam around in my mind and are obviously not a description for what constitutes cheating. As with anything it should be left up to the people involved to decide what defines their relationship.
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4/12/2012 1:18 am |
I'd rather have a girlfriend or wife getting herself off watching guys online than actually meeting them, and i would hardly consider that cheating if she were just getting herself off by chatting and talking dirty.
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LadyLuck2 beat me to it. Cheating and adultery are 2 different things.
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For me, it just comes down to this simple thought. You know your partner, and if you know that if your partner found out and would be hurt, then what you're doing is wrong. I make mistakes, I am out of control & at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best. ~Marilyn
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Let's not beat around the bush. If you have to go behind your spouse's back to do it (whether it's mental or physical), many people consider that cheating and it's hard to argue because of the deception element. To me, the more fundamental question is whether the entire monogamy construct, which is the foundation for "cheating" in the first place, is part of some "natural order" or whether it is a convenient social construct. I think if people were not as possessive and jealous in the first place, "cheating" is a non-issue. But most men don't want to share their wife/girlfriend's pussy and most women don't want other women blowing their husbands/boyfriends. Unless and until that attitude changes, huge numbers of people of both sexes will "cheat." karlbloggerfeld - Dry-humping your legs since 2007.
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I don't think it's any more cheating than if you went to a psychiatrist with a mental something or other that your spouse couldn't help you with. Being honest about what you're doing and seeking permission would definitely help becuase many people won't see it that way. They will feel betrayed and that they aren't good enough or have what you seek in your behavior. Thinking of 37 ways to kill your boss and get away with it while going to Burger king on your lunchbreak doesn't make you an actual murderer, so why should mental activities involving sex make you a cheater? If we we're actually just as guilty for mental activities as for the actual events, nearly every one of us would probably be in prison or worse. Screw the vatican.
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Although I have never been married, I have some relevant experience with this. Developing an online relationship, cybersex, etc... without the knowledge of your significant other? Tt doesn't constitute cheating, but it does constitute a breach of trust. And once enough damage to that trust happens, it isn't worth attempting to maintain a relationship. 2022... it HAS be better, right?!
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4/10/2012 7:32 am |
It's already been touched on, but it's the intimacy part that makes it cheating. Watching porn and cam shows or going to strip clubs aren't cheating, it's like reading Playboy or Beaver Hunt. Am I cheating on my partner by looking at your lovely ass on the blogs? It crosses the line if I share emotions, intimacy and love with a person other than my partner. Cyber sex and phone sex are cheating, obviously meeting in person is. You ask a good question -- if you aren't meeting or cybering is that still cheating? The emotions are still there but not the actions. That is the puzzler. Call me when you get the answer. 
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Its a very interesting and deep subject. As usual there is no one answer. For me and my wife its even stranger. She has given me the "Hall pass" but for some reason has more problem with my "virtual" adventures than my real ones! We talked about this long and hard. I can't see it. I mean virtual is NOT REAL. It doesn't actually happen. I take it as an extension of fantasy or imagination. She doesn't. Yet she is ok with my having actual sex with another woman. I asked her about that and she said that in that case I am just having sex which she can't provide. She asked me if I was falling for someone else and when I said no, she said "there you see?" This caused my head to ache a bit. For the life of me I can't understand how she isn't bothered by the REAl sex but is by the VIRTUAL sex...help??
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Why are you asking us when you seemed to have, and know, your boundaries already? Which goes to the larger question that EVERY couple or poly group has their own definitions for what is what, so there is not "one size fits all" answer here. Except this: if you have to hide it from your partner, you're doing wrong. Smart as a horse and hung like Einstein.
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In my world, becoming involved with a woman other than my wife whether in person or in cyberspace is a form of cheating or at least of disloyal behavior. That's probably why I don't talk about that actvity with my wife. The secrecy belies the reality of the activity being "wrong" in eyes of some -- her in particular. However, somehow I have reconciled the adventure and am OK with becoming acquainted with other women (in person or in cyberspace) even to the extent of a sexual relationship. To some that makes me a cad, I suppose. But I would hope not to be judged too harshly. There are reasons that are not merely justifications....
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4/10/2012 6:00 am |
If one person is hiding it from the other, then I consider it cheating. But that's only if you're building an emotional connection with the person online and keeping it totally secret from your spouse. It becomes even more serious when the person involved actually wants to meet the person they're chatting to online and make the cybersex into something real. I guess it also depends on if the couple in question is monogamous or polygamous. But for Puppy and I, I would consider it cheating. Swimmy & Puppy Big News Milestone Windows to the Soul Coitus Interruptus Finding Love Here Yes, it39s possible ~Diving into the Mind~
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I've known several people who were in open relationships and they had an rather elegant definition: If you're breaking and explicit or implicit boundary, you're cheating. Le's be honest about something folks, we are all adults after all. Most of the time when someone says, "I had no idea that would upset you" if it's about sex, you damn well that you knew it would upset them. There is a big difference between, "it's okay for you to do this I just don't want to know and I expect you to be discreet" and someone skulking around and hiding. Is cybersex cheating? What about an emotional affair? What about sleeping with someone when you are on a business trip? The answer: it all depends on what you have negotiated with your partner. If a couple have a 100 mile rule, sex on a business trip is okay. For some couples it's okay to a cam show as long as you don't become emotionally attached to the other person. It's all relative. 
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In many wedding ceremonies the couple answer the question of intention and the words include:" forsaking all others keeping only unto him/her ..." I think people who are married and pursue a relationship with someone else online are committing adultery even though it may be only virtual. Even given the circumstances of their marriage partner knowing and consenting to their spouse being online and pursuing a relationship for the purpose of obtaining sexual satisfaction is a violation of the vows and the trust they have for each other. It's cheating. As for watching a cam and masturbating--I don't think that constitutes cybersex. Playboy magazine, erotic photos, movies, porn are all used as a means of stimulation but not necessarily INTERaction. To me, cybersex is when two parties are talking to each other online (chatting, IM, voice) and sexually stimulating each other through their words. (They are interacting with each other.) It would seem that the two parties would have to know something about each other in order for it to be a meaningful exchange. That constitutes adultery. Never ignore those who care for you you will have lost diamonds while you were collecting stones
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